Can a "night off" work in a long term relationship?: The Sex, Marriage & Religion Debate

 My Friend Brian Stinga whom I have known since childhood always posts intriguing questions on facebook. These are usually accompanied by a link to an article he has recently read on a hot button topic. Today was no different:

Brian Stinga: Can a "night off" work in a long term relationship?

Posted along with a link to this article: I Gave My Boyfriend a Night Off -- With Another Woman
 
My Reply to Brian's Article:

I read it and well Brian you know I don't view the world or life in the same way most people do. So here is what I have to say: Life offers no dress rehearsal. We also don't get an expiration date stamped on our tummy like a carton of milk

When you break it down to logic: There will be people you love in your life that you will never have sex with so why is it so hard for people to believe that you can have sex with people you will never love? Many species of life on this planet is not monogamous. We like to believe that as evolved intelligent animals we should control our urges. What about being epicurean and going with our nature - If it feels good do it!

It is in fact our lack of evolution as well as maturity in who we are that causes feelings of jealousy and insecurity that are the cause as well as the effect of infidelity. If two people are whole people and secure in who they are, one partner or the other exploring something that can give them pleasure shouldn't be an issue. Of course I say this is good only of the four pillars of all healthy relationships are in place: Complete Honesty, Unconditional Trust, Mutual Admiration and Respect of Boundaries. If you don't have those four aspects with some one down you two shouldn't really be committed to each other.

A wise woman once told me as a young girl when I questioned her on why her husband's indiscretions didn't seem to bother her: "My husband is my best friend he shares his life with me, we have a family together, he makes me happy. Why the hell should I care who he sticks his dick into on occasion?" I laughed because it reminded me of a quote from The World According to Garp: "In this dirty minded world, you are either someone's wife or someone's whore. And if you're not either people think there is something wrong with you....but there is nothing wrong with me" — John Irving (The World According to Garp)

Marriage and Monogamy were invented for 3 simple reasons:

1) to limit the spread of disease among the ignorant and uneducated

2) to limit inbreeding among the ignorant and uneducated

3) because women pushed for it to become common place in Anglo-Saxon, Christian, Puritanical Society.

At this time I am seeing some one whom I adore. While I have little to no interest in exploring anything in a sexual manner or having different partners. He is aware that not only am I "ok" with him doing what he pleases but that I am his advocate in this matter. Too many people need to learn the difference between holding some one's hand and trying to chain their soul. Being there to support and love your partner in an unconditional manner should follow through in all arenas of life. Monogamy is a very selfish, immature and insecure concept. Smart, well rounded, intelligent people are not shaken because their partner has a desire to try something different. As I tell most people: sex is like food - life is like a Vegas buffet. If you can have Indian then Mexican then Italian on your plate because it's being offered, then why settle to only eat a cheese sandwich? Granted there are thousands of different cheeses and breads in this world but when you break it down - it's just a cheese sandwich. Variety is the spice of life.

Sadly too many women in this country are raised on American media which teaches them that they have no value unless they are physically appealing. It makes for some very insecure female creatures in this nation. I wish more women knew their own value. If there ever came a day when the man I am seeing felt a stronger connection to some one else then me I would support him moving on completely. But I don't think that will happen. If it does it won't be sex that lures him away, not in this case. It would be a deeper connection and really if you don't have that with your partner do you really want to give up your freedom to be with them?

(Now a long pause and wait for some one to read this, become enraged and respond) lol ~.o

Brian's Friend Adiel replies:


Hi guys.

I think how you think about this issue ultimately comes back to whether you believe marriage and sex is something that was arbitrarily invented by the descendants of ape-like creatures ie animals (albeit advanced animals) OR designed, created, and instituted by the Creator Himself with a holy purpose: to display His glory. With that in mind I share with you what the Bible says is the ultimate purpose of marriage: http://desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/staying-married-is-not-about-staying-in-love-part-1

God bless


My Reply:

I do believe in God however I do not believe in the man made device of religion as a whole. It contradicts it's self completely in that religions tell people that they were created as an individual but then try to restrict behaviors on a mass basis and dictate how each person should have a relationship with their higher power, rather then allowing each person to grow in their faith and as a person on their own. Which is really what free will is all about isn't it?

In addition to that all religious text is written by man: Both man and woman are flawed and each will impress his or her own imperfect emotions, ideals and views upon what they are writing. I do not believe sex or commitment need to be outlined by any one other then the people involved in said acts. Religion and religious views have killed more people on this earth through out history then any other reason for war combined. So please tell me why I would allow any such entity to have control over my thoughts, feelings, actions, behaviors and how I live my day to day life? If you are not evolved enough to know how to act in a moral and respectful manner to the other living beings you share this planet with as well as the gifts God gives us on your own without the assistance of outside influences, I pity you greatly.

As for my beliefs on Sex and Marriage:

Sex: I believe that it does not have to happen in the confines of being in love or having a life long commitment to the person you commit that act with. However when it does happen with some one you love and share a deep bond with it, it is so much more amazing and meaningful.

Marriage: If you really love some one God knows it with out ceremony and regardless of the circumstance. Marriage for evolved persons holds no meaning. It was created by aristocrats and is an archaic concept that was used to control the spread of disease as well as to control the ignorant and poor from mass populating and over throwing those in leadership. In today's age the act of getting married seems to me to be more so a show of financial swagger, then an actual act of love and commitment. As I have said to many of my Christian friends, "If you need to wear a cross for some one to know you are Christian, you are doing something wrong." If people need to stand before God and their families to prove to one another that there is a real loving bond between them, chances are there probably isn't. Giving your heart and making a life long commitment to some one when it's real; it needs no ceremony.  Love and commitment are evident and they shines all on their own without social or religious pomp and circumstance. Rings, words, dresses, $150 a head receptions: they are all meaningless unless their real emotion, true unconditional love and heartfelt sincerity in the couple's connection. When two people have that, all of what I have just stated seems shallow compared to the love they share.

Adiel I will leave you with two things:

First: God is an Elephant in a dark room.

A Jew will touch his tusk and say that he is hard and smooth, a Christian his skin and say that God is rough and dry and yet a Buddhist his tail and say that God is soft and fluffy. They will all argue that they are right and the others are wrong in their views and opinions, when in fact it would be more prudent to simply celebrate the fact that they all managed to find God each in their own way despite the darkness.

I believe it was Ghandi that is credited to this quote.

Second: Human Existence

One of the greatest aspects of human existence is the knowledge of self worth
If this one part of life is achieved, There is no mountain that can not be moved
No evil that will go unconquered, no man woman or child that will be harmed
For when a person learns self worth a realization that others should be respected soon follows
In concurrence with that respect is consideration and compassion for humanity, environment and everything betwixt the two
There are far too few people of this world that have had this knowledge,
It is unfortunately evident in every other aspect of human existence

I wrote this when I was 16 years old.


Adiel O. Corchado:

Jayme,

I always find your comments on Brian's wall interesting even this one. That was a mouth full though. I don't even know where to begin! For me it's easier to talk about one thing at a time. Sorry, I'm kind of slow like that :p But OK ...I'll try to address a few of the things you said.

OK, you said, "Religion and religious views have killed more people on this earth through out history then any other reason for war combined."

I don't know if you realize this (though it certainly looks like you do) but "religion" itself is sin according to the Bible. Religion = Trying to appease God by works (eg sitting on a pew every Sunday, donating money to charity, doing good deeds, etc). So you're actually kinda right. And yeah, terrible evil has been done in the name of God and religion throughout history. If you give me a chance, later on, I'd like to tell you what is the most egregious act of terrorism that has ever been committed in the name of God. With that said, I disagree with your statement. More people were killed by atheistic regimes in the 20th century alone that all of past religious history combined eg Mao Tse Tung, Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev, Pol Pot, etc. These things were done not necessarily in the name of "atheism" (what does that even mean?) but by regimes that had left God out of the equation. So I don't think the ultimate culprit for all this wickedness is "religion" per se but what the Bible describes as the radical depravity of people like you and me.

You said, "In addition to that all religious text is written by man: Both man and woman are flawed and each will impresses his or her own imperfect emotions, ideals and views upon what they are writing."

True. But this also applies to everything you just wrote. Should I then not believe anything you wrote? ;)

But seriously though you're right. Man is flawed, imperfect, and sinfully motivated. But that is not so with God. What the Bible claims is that God (who is flawless, perfect, and holy and pure) is so powerful that He is able to give us His word unadulterated even through imperfect people. It's like, when you write a note, who did the writing: you or the pen? Can you write a true statement using an imperfect pen? Sure you can. You can grab a broken, twisted pen and write "2 + 2 = 4" and there you have it. Well, that's sort of what the Bible says God did through men:

"knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

You asked, "So please tell me why I would allow any such entity to have control over my thoughts, feelings, actions, behaviors and how I live my day to day life?"

When you say "any such entity" I'm not exactly sure what kind of entity you have in mind. I can only tell you what the God of the Bible is like and then maybe you can ask me the question again with more specifics?

This is how God describes Himself:

"The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, long suffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty"

What do you think?


My Reply:

Actually Adiel you need to check your facts on the death tolls because my thinking goes back further then just a couple of mere centuries. If you want to look at the Crusades we can, lets not even go into the the atrocities that pre-christian cultures committed on one another for their God or Gods. I wouldn't suspect you would include them since you don't recognize them as being real deities but to those cultures they were. Have you forgotten that mythologies, all of them had a God of War? From the Mayans to the Norse to the Greeks, but I digress. Should we talk about Hitler or the 2,000+ year old war between the Jews and Muslims in Israel? Should we go into our own country's fight for freedom from religious oppression? Did you forget our forefathers first came here to get away from the Church of England? Which was what lead to the heavy taxation by the English Parliament, highly influenced by the Church of England all of which was swayed by King George the 3rd who was also prince-elector of Hanover which was part of the Holy Roman Empire.

Fact is no other reason that exists in this world comes even close to the number of people that have been killed by religious beliefs and yes hence religion.

But let's take your examples:

Lenin: Vladimir Lenin was a Russian Marxist revolutionary and from Marxist beliefs helped to develop Leninism which comprises political and socialist economic theories. Leninism was developed from Marxism, and Lenin's interpretations of Marxist theory within the agrarian Russian Empire of the early 20th century. Marx's beliefs are derived not wholly but in part are influenced by Epicurean theory. Epicurus didn’t deny the existence of gods. Instead, he stated that: what gods there may be do not concern themselves with us, and thus would not seek to punish us either in this or any other life. So if you follow me around the long road Lenin's actions and beliefs are not completely absent of the concept that God or Gods exist. Just that God doesn't care about how we act and that we will not be punished. Therefore disproving your concept that his motives and actions are completely atheistic or void of religious belief.

Stalin: Joseph V. Stalin entered into a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. As we all know Hilter's cleansing of Germany while not entirely based on killing the Jewish population, was a main focus of his regime and is what World War II is best known for. This agreement was followed by the Soviet invasion of Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina. Stalin was also a staunch follower of Lenin-Marxism.

Khrushchev: Records show many meetings w/ Stalin during his reign. Also that he was a staunch follower of Stalin. His actions were in turn fruit from the poisonous Nazi/Stalin tree as well as Lenin-Marxism.

Mao Tse Tung: Mao drew information from the writings of Marx, Engels and Lenin in elaborating his theory.

Pol Pot: Saloth Sar aka Pol Pot's party adapted elements of Theravada Buddhism to justify their non-standard version of communism.

So explain to me again how any of these leaders actions were void of religion when their political theories were based on the teachings of people who were categorized as either religious leaders or great philosophers?

phi·los·o·pher –noun
1. a person who offers views or theories on profound questions in ethics, metaphysics, logic, and other related fields.
2. a person who is deeply versed in philosophy.
3. a person who establishes the central ideas of some movement, cult, etc.

Movements, cults, theories on profound questions - sounds like philosophers and religious leaders are one and the same. O.o

As far as my writings go. I do not proclaim nor have I ever that my word is the word of God. Again your religious text that states that God can convey his word with out flaw or influence are the writings of humans. I know a lot of men who will say anything to get what they want. Most people are drawn into being or becoming powerful. What is more powerful then having people believe your words come from a higher power? Motives again my darling on why this text came to be and reasoning behind them being written.

My belief is that God wouldn't inspire any of his or her words to be written. God, if truly a supreme being, would not seek to super impose us with his or her rules but would allow us to live the life he or she gave us freely as we so chose. If that not be the intent why make us able to think freely? Why give us the ability to reason and make discernment? Why create us with the ability to have empathy and concern as well as to learn? Why give us self realization?

I can see how power hungry, frightened humans would impose their thoughts and conditions upon one another. Not only in an attempt to control one another for power purposes but to cement their place in history because as we are all aware our lives are fleeting.

Your definition of how one man stated God describes himself is sweet and almost child like in understanding. But I am sure that when the day comes and you meet your maker you can explain to him or her why you chose not to use the gift of your mind which was clearly given to you. You will have to atone for why you chose not to think on your own and instead chose to be lazy and follow the words of other humans. When you talk about sin the only real sin in this world that needs to be forgiven is the fact that people allow themselves to be ruled by other humans and their teachings. It is safer and easier to do that rather then engaging and immersing yourself into the wonderful play ground and wealth of knowledge displayed before us. This is truly the greatest blessing that God offers us. The gift of our life and the freedom to do with it what we so chose. You will not find the knowledge our creator intends in any book, passage or scripture.

“The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there”. - Stigmata

Adiel O. Corchado:

Jayme I believe that more evil has been done in the name of God and religion than you can ever imagine.

Actually, I think many of the religions in the world were started by people doing exactly what you're doing in this post: inventing a go...d of their own understanding:

"My belief is that God wouldn't " ___________________ (insert what you would like your god to be or not be, do or not do)

"God, if truly a supreme being would not seek to " __________ (insert anything you disagree with)

"the only real sin in this world that needs to be forgiven is " _________ (insert here what you subjectively feel is wrong and you would subjectively prefer people not to do)

"when the day comes and you meet your maker you... You will have to " __________ (prophesy what will happen in the future to those who disagree with you)

Hopefully no one takes your views seriously because before you know it we might wind up with yet another false religion in the world in the name of which more blood might be spilled!

Now, Jayme, you may consider this the reasonable assessment produced your own rational mind of who / what god truly is, but the Bible calls it "idolatry". Idolatry is when you fashion your own personalized version of God tailor made to suit your needs. This is actually a violation of the 1st and 2nd of the Ten Commandments:

“You shall have no other gods before Me."

“You shall not make for yourself any idols"

You may think this is no big deal however the real God condemns this severely:

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor IDOLATERS, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

Also, you didn't really answer my question, did you see the "contradiction" in how God describes Himself?
 
My Reply:

lmao - Inventing a God of my own understanding? How about my views of God and religion as I see fit and is my right according to the laws of this nation? Or did you forget as a Christian only God is allowed to sit in judgment of your fellow... human beings?

Adiel the only thing that I find to be false in this entire conversation other then the human born and canonized bullshit text you keep spouting, is the fact that a rational, intelligent human being can be so brain washed as to think that their religion's views are the only ones that are correct.

In fact in stating those two first commandments if they are truly God's word - you break them in engaging in your religious practices as well as in condemning me for my views:

In going to church you worship the words of a man - any preacher, priest or minister is not God therefore you place a false God before having a one on one connection with your maker. You clutch to your biblical text rather then having a real connection to God. Again having the words of men come before your real creator.

Actually you are wrong about your definition:

Idolatry( as per www.dictionary.com):

noun, plural -tries.
1. the religious worship of idols.
2. excessive or blind adoration, reverence, devotion, etc.

You condemn me for my words saying I should not make false idols but you yourself take on the form of an idol in your condemnation of me.

That is your view of God not mine. There are billions of people who don't ascribe to your version of God does that make you idolatry or them? You follow religion blindly with out question. I would guess it is you.

When I speak I speak in terms of what I think, what I feel. As a human being with a mind, wow, I think I am allowed to do that? (lmao - threw that in just for you Brian)

Fact is we could go on with me showing you how a free thinker thinks and feels about life and God and religion but I do not believe in engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

But I will leave you with an educational and real story:

When I was young I wanted to become a Catholic Priest. I loved going to church on Sunday with my Nanny (father's mother). When I got older I did a lot of Catholic Ministry in my local area. I was allowed by the chaplain at my high school to proclaim the Gospel at one of our masses on a retreat. He confided in me that he thought I would have made a great priest. He also told me that many women had been priests as well as bishops and cardinals during the black plague. I asked why there was no record of them and why the church no longer allowed women to be ordained. He stated that during World War II the Catholic church didn't step in and stop the persecution of the Jews because they made an agreement with Hitler. All of the books that were burned and had been considered sacrilegious weren't all Jewish text. That a lot of the books were the records and accounts of the brave women who gave last rights to dying people all over Europe at a time when men feared being part of the church. Despite my sadness over what he told me I stayed with the church for another two years.

I went on another retreat that was a new concept for the church. It was a college retreat where part of the time we could ask questions about our faith because the church felt that people strayed away from the church at that age due to skepticism. The three priests who were running the retreat boldly boasted that between them they had over 100 years of priestly knowledge.
My first question to them was, " Why aren't women allowed to become priests?" Their reply was, " Because Jesus chose 12 male apostles." They went on to say, " But women can become nuns."

I then asked,"What are the main differences between a nun and a priest?" They replied,"A Priest can hear confessions and do last rights, they can prepare the body and blood of Christ and they can preach the Gospel according to God."

I then asked, " When Jesus walked his last walk on the cross who did he speak to?" Before they could answer, " I said according to our own Bible as well as stations of the cross; Jesus met his mother, Mary and Veronica who wiped his face on his last walk and they were the last people to hear his words, were they not?" "Yes," they agreed with me.

I then asked," And who was it that was sent to prepared Jesus's body for burial and proclaimed that Christ was God and he had risen?" Again before they could answer I stated, " Was it not Mary Magdalene and in some references include the "other Mary" who were sent to prepare the body of Christ and proclaimed the first Christian gospel that Christ had risen?"

I said,"So God chose two women to hear Jesus's last confession, God chose two women to prepare the body of our Lord and he chose two women to proclaim the first Gospel that Christ was in fact our Savior?"

They then asked me," Why did Jesus only choose male disciples?" I said," Because humanity was not fair to women at that time. They were not taught to read and write but men were. In order for the church to survive Jesus knew there needed to be messengers that could read and write. Why hasn't the church recognized women as society has progressed? More importantly why can a 19 year old uneducated woman see God's message so clearly when three priests with over 100 years of religious knowledge can not?"

And with that, question and answer session was over and so was my faith in the church. I love God with all my heart. I think Christ is an amazing holy figure. I also think that people like Mother Theresa are a sign of holy inspiration. But I am sad and disappointed in the concept of religion as a whole. I have not found one that suits me completely.